arrow moving at what velocity.200 feet per second? The 7.62 round is not as fast as the .223, the round fired by the AR-15 (Americas most popular semiautomatic rifle), but it, . This is exactly what I said above. Second Media Inc., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The idea that a bullet has the power to knock an adversary to the ground is a Hollywood myth. Work scenarios out in your head before they happen. I would love to get my hands on the data and map it by cartridge. Not to mention costs savings in ammo which is a big deal both in the government and civilian perspective. In the last 30 years, the FBI has moved from .38/.357 caliber revolvers to 9mm semi-automatics. When the. Ill leave it at this and welcome any comments of common sense and or experience. quick defense trigger and has an extended 17rnd clip. Out charges the male mental with a screw driver in his hand. We enjoy our 2nd amendment and want it protected and were prepared to give our life to defend our country. And Im not always concerned with concealing. Why bullet size matters in police shootings | PoliceOne.com I have both, like them all, and carry them because rifles are hard to conceal! This story of a Chicago-suburb police officer should answer that one for you. WebBlack Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use.Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. To each their own. With proper shot placement, I can make my .22 a rock star. Riley, love your artical. Looks like a Chinese-made toy gun. Im very confident a 45 caliber would have been one and done. first handgun i ever fired was glock27 .40SW she was snappy at first but 16 years later and after shooting lots of .45 and 9, i am back to .40SW for HD purposes. Sign up now to get our latest stories and eye-opening briefings. What I saw in Korea during the Korean War was that the .45 ACP was the most deadly Proper shot placement is the lamest argument based on logic. The .357sig does have very impressive ballistics. The role of the gun industry in Americas gun violence epidemic. Love reading your stuff. career to carry a Glock 9mm. I would easily give credit to the Colt 45 on reliability accuracy and range, my 9mm all it really does better is shoot faster because it has a 4 lb. Now thats hilarious. Skorpion Ammo Type: 9 mm. Tests show that while it travels at 1,154 feet per second at 500 yards, slower than the .223 at that distance, the AKs bullet can deliver 370 foot-pounds of force, more than the AR. Fire Rate: 240 All righty then, I started with 38 caliber revolvers in the early 70s, 53 yrs later, since few people carry revolvers, capacity, I have bounced back and forth and keep ammo for both 9mm and 45. The FBI cant make up its mind and bounces back and forth. Several firearms in .22LR, .380ACP, 9mm, 7.62x25, 7.62 Nagant, .38/.357, 7.62x54R, .45ACP and .223. Most self-defense shootings take place inside 20 feet and are over in seconds; if Im out in public and shooting beyond that distance, itll probably be tough to sell as self-defense to a judge and/or jury anyway. First off, its important to understand what the term refers to. I would make the same recommendation to all American law enforcement agencies who are considering a switch to 9mm handguns. The 9mm leaves the muzzle on average at 1100 feet per second, NOT 1500. For me the argument is how the pistol or revolver feels in my hand and how accurately can shoot it. I like a simple .45 +P with a lot of lead. Center Mass/head shots are guaranteed kills. I still carry a Ruger P-97 in 45 ACP caliber. WebSearch: 45 Acp Damage Human Body. I like how the author notes that the accuracy analogy is nonsense, thats true. It stood there looking at me. It appears now we have had to Dumb Down our .45cal. 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will generally not penetrate the outside skin of a car body. Sources say Jimmy Lam used a TEC-9 style pistol, illegal to sell in the state for almost two decades. Shooting another person is only done with the intention to, at the very least, incapacitate the subject to protect the physical safety of others. Web45 ACP Ammo | 45 ACP Ammo for Sale | Ammunition Depot 3/2/2023 ON SALE Ammunition Bulk Ammo Bulk 223 Ammo Bulk 9mm Ammo Bulk 45 ACP Ammo Bulk 380 Ammo Bulk 308 Ammo Bulk 7.62x39 Ammo Bulk 22 LR Ammo Bulk Pistol Ammo Bulk Rifle Ammo Bulk Shotgun Ammo Handgun Ammo 9mm Ammo 380 Ammo 45 ACP Ammo 38 Special Sudden, immediate and even instant death. Train! The P227 Tacops holds 14 rounds in the mag and 1 in the chamber so 15 rounds is similar to the Glock. There was no blood on the floor below him. The expansive quality of these rounds creates larger permanent cavities. The former is by far the leading reason for handgun ownership. It enters the human body at energies approaching the speed of light and The comments concerning shot placement are correct. ;p, I think someone is living in Television land, get real you might have shot one or chased a couple but routinely is in make believe land, quit lying just to talk. We argued more capacity modern rounds ect ect. and have shot that enough also to hit well with it. So any caliber is better than none. The damage was far too extensive. Like cars and motorcycles its all a matter of preference for each individual.God Bless America and May God keep us safe so we dont ever have to be put in a situation to have to find out. Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as knock-down power. The only thing that can knock a target down is physiological incapacitation or psychological stress. human body Ballistic gel is a joke and not a valid substitute for actual flesh and bone. The wider bullet also creates a bigger cavity in whatever it passes through. In 30 years I saw a shit-ton of things. WebThe.45 acp proved an effective round with greatly improved stopping power. It also drops in Air Drops, rarely as Tier Chest loot, or very rarely spawn as Tier World loot. I still did like the 39-2 for CC. Any gun between 9 mil and .45 caliber is fine if you can conceal it, and employ it quickly and with reasonable accuracy. Following the incident, significant changes were made to the firepower carried by agents, the body armor they wore and the incident response training they received. But its definitely not easy to carry concealed (especially in hot weather) and Im big guy. ), and I can buy twice the ammo and get twice the practice. Select the option or tab named Internet Options (Internet Explorer), Options (Firefox), Preferences (Safari) or Settings (Chrome). A 5 psi blast overpressure will rupture eardrums in about 1% of subjects, and a 45 psi overpressure will cause eardrum rupture in about 99% of all subjects. Now they have announced they are moving back to the 9mm in the form of the new Gen5 Glock 17M. WebThe 45 will but them down and bleed them out real quick with a gut shot, the 9mm will have them flopping around and may not stop them from firing back, also from the pools of blood near the bodies the 45 does more damage. The damage is often extensive, and not just for those who die. A pistol just sucks in that situation. Whats more, a temporary cavity measures volume that has been stretched, not volume that has been destroyed. We cannot recreate these or even reliably use the data. 3, both hemolymph ACP and AKP activities of P. clarkii were significantly decreased in the 30 and 50 mg/L groups compared to the control (P < 0.01).Similarly, PO activity also exhibited a significant reduction in the 30 mg/L group (P < 0.05) and the 50 mg/L group (P < 0.01), respectively.However, LZM activity showed a significant increase Theres also the reaction of a surprise. Yet the 12 is more powerful and more lead, but one shot can put some on their hind end. According to the Marine Corps Times: For Marine special operators, the never-ending debate over whether the 9mm or .45-caliber round is the more powerful bullet has been settled. All three shots vital to heart and lungs. Weve known this for, what, eighty years now? This includes victims shot by suspetcs and suspects shot by our officers. Then moved to 10mm (after the 1986 Miami shootout). If you use .22 mag, muzzle flash is pronounced and may have some fear factor with its use. It can also destroy your aim, and the strongest bullet on earth is useless if it doesnt hit the bad guy coming at you. If I remember my undergraduate physics, acceleration is defined as a change in velocity or a change in vector. 9mm Vs 45 Has The Marine Corps Settled It? - Concealed Carry Inc Of these, the hollow point round is the most common and effective. Youd be much better served with HOT 357 mag loads or a 44mag. Keep in mind that fragmentation does sometimes occur, however, it cannot be relied upon. 45 ACP And other trauma surgeons are on record as saying that they cannot tell the difference between wounds caused by 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. laugh at the forensic expert and 2.) This is accomplished through simple physics; a larger bullet imparts more force into its target than a smaller one. I own 9mm, .40 and .45. Being only 30 the 9mm argument was often a argument and war waged by my generation of officer. Request product info from top Ammunition companies. I am former law enforcement from Florida, depending on the situation I actually carry both my Ruger American 9 mm and the Ruger American 45 caliber ACP oh, not at the same time lol. Your story could have just as easily gone the same way but with a Glock 21 (similar to Timothy Gramins experience). The larger a projectiles surface area, the greater its ability to transfer its energy to the target, instead of simply penetrating straight through. So Marines are now trained to simply kill them. Adamantinomatous craniopharyngioma cyst fluid can trigger My $.02. Government can spend less of my tax dollars (maybe. If one keeps a weapon in the home for self defense, we believe that it is a duty to know the weapon inside and out and to train with it regularly. Oh boy, that could start a whole new area of discussion 1911 vs 1926, most common bullet weights, etc. 7.62 leads the damage potential, followed by 5.56, followed by 45 and finally 9 mm. If I wanted to hit a little harder, I would maybe look for a WC .45 mold in the 220 to With the continuation of the pussification of America we see so many in posotions of power making decisions that follow the continuation of that thinkinhg. A tenured officer responded to a violent male mental on a *TD bus. You're Dead: 5 Deadliest Bullets In The World It may take 2 rounds to take someone down, but the shooter will have a lot easier follow up shots with the smaller 9mm. WebThe Smith & Wesson Model 26 is a target style revolver chambered in .45 ACP. They are fine weapons and are certainly capable as a sidearm. The bullet lands in the same place because the entire situation and milieu is what determines it. Episode 424 is the perfect companion to this post because we discuss caliber and it's relation to hit factor! Growing up in Alaska, I have shot more than a fair share of big game. cause if they did there would not be so many innocent victims being injured and killed all because they couldnt hit the side of a barn with a soft ball from 5 ft. There were no exit wounds. Let the operators in theater chose what they want. I also own both my fathers series 70 .45 (very accurate, low recoil due to mass, gunsmith tuned trigger that feels like butter, and extra fat grips) And a Kahr K40 (small, easy to conceal, but has a HORRENDOUS trigger pull and snappy recoil). Concurr on 45 and m14 . Ships To Store. No matter what caliber you are carrying, just remember that one of the keys to shooting through auto glass (whether from within or outside the vehicle) is to shoot as much as possible through the same hole. Why is .45 acp so much better than 9mm? Interesting. The latest testing shows that modern 9mm performs pretty much as well as the other common semi-auto options, and since it carries more rounds and is easier to shoot (and I dont care who you are, but it is easier/faster to shoot compared to the larger calibers), it is fairly sound logic to select the 9mm. Which Id be inclined to think a .45 would transfer more force more immediately taking the spirit out of most. In this dangerous time period, an officers adversary can continue his deadly actions against an officer. In that encounter, Sgt Gramins shot the suspect 14 times, any one of 6 of those would have almost certainly been fatal wounds. Sadly, most government decisions like this are primarily based on cost effectiveness, not cartridge performance or effectiveness; thats the main reason I quit using military or LE decisions as a factor in my own carry decisions. Its why neck-down cartridges for .223 are even used. With the 45 2 at most. The projectile is losing velocity and arcing downward. Tests show that while it travels at 1,154 feet per second at 500 yards, slower than the .223 at that distance, the AKs bullet can deliver 370 foot-pounds of force, more than the AR. The one magor factor that keeps deciding the outcome is if the victim or assailant has the actual ability to kill. And I suspect it could very well be the Sig P320 as it is the epitome of modular.. 3, both hemolymph ACP and AKP activities of P. clarkii were significantly decreased in the 30 and 50 mg/L groups compared to the control (P < 0.01).Similarly, PO activity also exhibited a significant reduction in the 30 mg/L group (P < 0.05) and the 50 mg/L group (P < 0.01), respectively.However, LZM activity showed a significant increase Then get ready for a gunfight. 45 guy and .357 mag lover . If I am just going to the range with my son, I prefer the .45. Pistol calibers can work well if you dispense them from an SMG and send lots of them at a time. Why do I say that? We all, sitting safe and pretty, can discuss this and that but we are NOT in their shoes. Police, f.b.i., train. While psychological factors incapacitate more assailants than physiological factors, they are also the primary reason for a failure to incapacitate. High-velocity Your body will make the shot while your mind hesitates every time! Because of the relatively slim chance of obtaining more than a single torso hit, the ammunition used must maximize the likelihood of immediate incapacitation. and their caregivers describe a lifetime of chronic pain, repeated surgeries years after being shot, and challenges to everyday living that come from losing parts of vital organs, like a woman who has to buy her son, We are currently looking for shooting survivors to discuss their experience and their recovery. I am old school. The energy delivered to the target increases geometrically along with increases in mass, and exponentially with increases in velocity. A majority of FBI shooters are both faster and more accurate using 9mm Luger versus .40 S&W rounds. For those that think their their 45 is best, Ill shoot my 9mm and for those that think their 9mm is best, Ill shoot my 45. In my limited experience, shot placement is is the ultimate factor with any round. I like it better than the small pistols and can conceal the 1911 easily. I'd like to see the science on that one. During each tour I was personally involved multiple combat engagements. Vital organs sit deep within the human body, so penetration and permanent cavity volume are important factors. Thanks. So if my pill hit my target in a less than optimal body section with ball ammo, Ill opt for the bigger ball every time. Ive seen too many people want to hunt but do not have ability to take a animals life. People like the OP of the TIFU have been shot right above their heart and lungs, with .223 and despite a nasty, nasty exit wound and the shot placement, walked it off. The will to live and fight varies from person-to-person. What it really boils down to is budget, not protection. I do believe that whether its a 9 mm or 45 caliber youve got to be accurate with the placement of that round otherwise youre just wasting shots. I trap and shoot most animals with a Browning 1911-22 now. To me the rest dont count. Open the tools menu in your browser. Overall I enjoyed reading your piece and found it noteworthy that Smith&Wesson ( one of the great disappointments of this and the last century) was eliminated from the contract competition. When I left LE I traided for a S&W 39-2 9mm. The reason is recoil. Shot placement vs. If that were true, we would only have one size Shoe, Clothing Etc. Its hesitation that makes people miss. Before he did this there was almost as many different firearms within the department as deputies. If you notice in Police shootings, the gun is usually empty after the event is over. What type of bullet is being fired? As someone just coming in your home or coming at you out of the blue. If youve ever spent anytime shooting steel then you would know which one will take someone off their feet quicker. That said today I only carry my 5th gen Glock 19. This may be called Tools or use an icon like the cog. I think the armchair warriors need to think about how a pistol is barely effective in military situations. Maybe Obamas army should be issued paint ball guns so there is a non-lethal component too. There are a number of reasons for a failure to incapacitate, including a lack of awareness of the wound, intense personal fortitude, extreme emotions or physiological effects both natural (adrenaline) or chemically-induced (drugs such as PCP, heroin and cocaine). You can have all the knockdown power in the world but unless you place it thats going to do the most damage then it doesnt matter if its a 9 millimeter or 45. The Department of Defense has recently been taking a hard look at the sidearms and sidearm calibers issued to today's military personnel on the front lines. You could smell the gunpowder. I find that there is a difference when using 9mm vs .45acp. So banter on gentlemen. My bottom line is to shoot what you shoot the best. The flesh can tear and cells can burst as the tissue erupts outward and then slams back. Yes, I know it was a +P round, but then, there arent any grizzly bears in my neck of the woods. This gave the enemy a chance to still bury a spearhead in the shooters chest, before finally collapsing from internal damage and blood loss. If youre being attacked or in the process of deterring an oncoming attack, fear can have an affect. I have never shot a people. Even a frontal gut shot must penetrate seven or more inches in slender adults for reliable incapacitation. I believe the 45 ACP would scare many and they would rarely shoot to their capability. Anyone actually seen the effect of .45 jhp? | 1911Forum
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